Aliens & the Pentagon w/ Dr. Hugh Ross

Aliens & the Pentagon: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Aliens & the Pentagon: this mp4 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Ken McMullen:
Ufos, aliens and the Pentagon. Recently, the US Congress held a public hearing on claims the government is covering up its knowledge of UFOs, specifically that the government conducted a multi-decade program which collected and attempted to reverse engineer crashed UFOs. And these allegations were made under oath by a government official. And we are going to try to figure out what's up with that. What is going on with the government and these kind of testimonies, as well as what's just going on with this whole thing anyway. And today I'm excited to have back on. We're very fortunate to have back on Never Take This for Granted. Dr. Hugh Ross. He's an astrophysicist and author of I should Ask Him, but I know it's at least a couple dozen books. He's the founder and senior scholar of reasons to believe it's out in Southern California. It's an organization that researches and communicates how discoveries about nature harmonize with scripture. Uh, one of the books written several years ago with colleagues was Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men. Welcome, Dr. Ross.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Thank you for inviting me.

Ken McMullen:
Oh, I'm always. I'm always a little nervous, too, because you could be traveling the world, writing books, speaking in big conferences. And I hate to take your time, but I know every time I have you on or Dr. Rana or Dr. Samples that we have great feedback from those that listen to this podcast. They always learn something. So I appreciate it.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
That's good to hear. Yeah.

Ken McMullen:
Okay. So do you ever get tired of people you have so much knowledge of the universe and complexities of space and time when someone just says, Hey, can we talk about aliens and UFOs? And does that bother you at all or do you enjoy that?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, I became an expert. Not by intent. It happened when I was 16 years of age. I was a director of observations of the chapter in Vancouver, the Royal Astronomical Society in Canada. I said, Hey, let's have a booth at the Pacific National Exhibition. We had this great booth there, but they put us right next to the Flying Saucer Club. And since I, as an amateur astronomer, had a good knowledge of the nighttime sky, everywhere I went, they gave me the job of handling the UFO reports. Every university, every observatory. So I'm with without any intent of my own. I wound up becoming an expert on UFOs.

Ken McMullen:
Yeah, you actually got the testimonials and all that from people. How many years were you doing that?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Ever since I was 16. I mean, I still get people.

Ken McMullen:
Oh, you still do it.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Wow. Oh, yeah, it still happens. So.

Ken McMullen:
Okay, what was what happened a couple of weeks ago? Here's my question about this is. I didn't watch it real close. And, you know, a lot of people aren't really paying attention to everything going on in government. We have our own lives to live. But on social media, at a minimum, you get little snippets of this and that and you'll see a snippet of somebody. Under oath saying a government official that, you know, they have inside knowledge and that the government has a cover up and there's alien spacecraft and all this. How can that be? What's going on with that?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, it was David Grush who testified before a subcommittee of the US Congress. Now, he's been making public statements about US government cover ups of UFO craft and alien beings or bodies. This has been going on for at least five years. But now he was testifying under oath before Congress, and what I noticed is he backed off from his previous public claims. So instead of claiming that the government actually had physical bodies of UFO beings, he said, well, what they had was biological material. And he was still claiming, even under oath that the government had these hangers with. Now, he wasn't claiming that he had complete spaceships from alien beings, but he did say they had physical craft or parts of craft. And he also testified before Congress that these craft apparently had the ability to violate the laws of physics. And our government was trying to figure out how to back engineer that technology. You know, I read what he put in his written report before he testified before Congress. I suspect what was really going on is he heard because, you know, our government's been involved in investigating UFOs for decades. I think what he heard was government officials making a comment. Look, we're dealing with something that can't be explained by the laws of physics. And he conflated that to saying that they had craft that could do that. No, what was really happening, in my opinion, was that the physicist investigating UFOs had been saying what they've been saying for decades. Namely, we're dealing with a phenomena that's interdimensional, something that's beyond the spacetime dimensions of the universe. Some, you know, beings that are not subject to the laws of physics, of the universe. And so he never.

Ken McMullen:
I'm sorry, he never claimed to actually himself have seen anything. Right. It's still hearsay.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
It's still hearsay. And, you know, I've done a podcast where I basically made the point I got an article up on my Facebook page saying for three reasons. We know that his claims have no credibility because he's claiming that this cover has been going on since 1933. That's a long time. You know, we're talking 90 years.

Ken McMullen:
The government can't keep a secret for five minutes. Come on.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah, that's the whole point. I gave the example of President Richard Nixon trying to cover up a single audio cassette tape With all the power of the executive branch behind him, he was only able to keep it covered up for 11 days. And so, yes, our government security is simply not up to the task. And then the second point is, if there really was physical evidence, how come there's no physical artifacts that show up in a museum or have been actually put before members of Congress? And to give you a counter example, on multiple times I've seen rocks recovered from the moon by the Apollo astronauts. I've watched officials handling these rocks. I've seen these rocks up close. But no one has ever seen an artifact from one of these alien spacecraft. Lots of fuzzy photographs, but nothing you can handle or touch or actually see in a museum. But I think the strongest evidence against David Gruchy's claims is that it's simply not possible for a craft of that size to traverse interstellar space. And, you know, the one equation every layperson knows is e equals MC squared.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, C is the velocity of light and basically makes the point it's simple high school algebra to take E equals MC squared and demonstrate the faster you travel through space, the more damage you're going to take from particles in interstellar space. And even if you're only going one tenth the velocity of light. The protons and electrons and micro dust you encounter as you travel through interstellar space will destroy your spaceship. Now, there are exceptions to that. If you make the spaceship really small because the smaller the cross section, the less the damage, maybe you can make it happen. Or if you've got a really big spaceship that can withstand the damage, you say, How big are we talking about? Well, I would argue if you want to keep beings like us alive as they travel through interstellar space, the minimum size of a spaceship needed to keep them alive is the size of the Death Star that you see in Star Wars or something. At least half the diameter of the moon. That's the minimum size.

Ken McMullen:
And how small? How small do you have to go?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Okay. Well, astronomers actually have a proposal that they want to get funded, which is to send spaceships to the nearest planet beyond our solar system. It's only four and a quarter light years away. But they realize that if they go one one tenth the velocity of light, just the particles that you're going to encounter on the way means that the spaceships can't be bigger than ten centimeters across. Moreover, we're going to have to send at least 1000 of them. If we send 1000 spaceships no bigger than ten centimeters across, at least half of them will be totally destroyed by the time they get to that nearest extrasolar planet. The other half will all be partly destroyed. But what astronomers are counting on, they'll be destroyed in different ways. So we should be able to get some meaningful data back if we send a thousand tiny spaceships to Crazy.

Ken McMullen:
So that's kind of like is that kind of like tortoises where they send all of these little babies down to the ocean? Knowing that only some of them are going to survive. You have to start with a mass.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Right.

Ken McMullen:
And then, you know, then the few make it and then they carry on. And if you have a ten. So I'm picturing in my brain. Ten centimeters you're talking about. Uh, like a kids tub toy where you have a little whale and you wind it up like.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Something no bigger than that.

Ken McMullen:
How would. How is that a spaceship? How does that fly and go anywhere?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, while we do the technology to accelerate that to one tenth, even to 2/10 of velocity of light, that can that can be done. The tricky part is to have the instruments on board that tiny spaceship where it has a decent probability of being functional by the time it gets to that nearest planet outside of our solar system.

Ken McMullen:
So instead of chimpanzees, you could have, like, caterpillars, travelers. No, I'm trying to think of.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
A termite would not make it. A bacterium wouldn't make it. But the advantage of these little micro machines that they're going to put inside this thing is that they're much less subject to being destroyed by the radiation in interstellar space than a bacterium would be. And so, yeah, bacterium, forget it. But we could send, you know, these little tiny micro machines.

Ken McMullen:
That's crazy. What's the probability of that happening?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
I think there's a good chance that that's going to be funded because spaceships that tiny can be manufactured fairly cheaply and, you know, be quite interesting to be able to actually send physical craft to the nearest planet beyond our solar system. So I wouldn't be surprised if that happens to be completed in terms of sending them off. But if we send them a one tenth the velocity of light, we got to wait 42 years before we get any data back. So it's a long term project. And some astronomers are thinking that's a long time to wait. Let's send it a 2/10 of velocity of light. Now we only have to wait 21 years, but now we better send 10,000 spaceships because the probability of them being destroyed is four times higher at 2/10 of the velocity of light than it is at one tenth of the velocity of light. That's crazy. It's it's V squared divided by C squared. So when you increase the velocity, the damage goes up with the square of the velocity.

Ken McMullen:
Working for NASA must be so frustrating. I mean, you look at projects and you think if you want to do one or not, you're like, Well, if we do this, we'll all be gone. We'll never see the results. We'll never know.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, I remember when I was a graduate student, I heard a lecture from a 93 year old astrophysicist who began a project in his early 20s, knowing it would take 70 years before he built a publisher and he lived long enough to publish it. Oh.

Ken McMullen:
Very good.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Maybe that's why astronomers live longer than the rest of the population might be.

Ken McMullen:
Yeah. So, you know, to circle back and close up that Pentagon thing, have a little theory which is kind of outside the science part of it. I have suspicions anytime cameras are involved. Somebody making claims that you aren't proven one way or another. The next thing you're going to see like this guy on is he's going to show up on the History Channel. He's going to be on ancient aliens. You can have a career. You just got to get your face and name out there. So I'm. You think there's ulterior motives?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, I'm always careful with the History Channel I've been on a couple of times and they always edit me in such a way that I wind up on their program saying something I don't actually believe. So don't trust anything you hear on the History Channel. Yeah. Yeah. Aliens?

Ken McMullen:
Yeah. I used to enjoy the History Channel, but it's. It's more like the National Enquirer channel now with a history theme, I think. Yeah. Themed and national.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
They sent a crew out the interviewed me for 45 minutes and they took a 110 second clip and a 15 second clip completely out of context.

Ken McMullen:
Oh, yeah. To fit their narrative.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah, to fit their agenda. Exactly.

Ken McMullen:
All right. On to actual UFOs and aliens and. I know there's a lot that could be said about that. But you know, when in my college biology, the only thing that was ever talked about UFO sightings was swamp gas. It's so much more to it now. Yep. From my layperson understanding it seems to me. And I want you to elaborate. You're the expert, is that this isn't a new phenomenon. It's been through history. It just seems to get. Amped up with. A cell phone recordings or we have a way we can all witness things now and someone gets something cool on video, which could be altered video, we don't even know It goes viral and everyone's talking about it. Guess I have several questions. You can go whichever path you want. Is is it amped up? Is it the same as it's always been? We're just highlighting it more and. Which probably one question. The second question would be, do you think there's. Emotive, let's say, with government, to get us focused on something so we're not looking at something else.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah. Well, address your first question. Ufo phenomena has been around a long, long time. The first documented recording of a UFO sighting goes all the way back to Thutmose the third 3000 years ago, and likely even earlier than that. There is heightened interest in the 20th century. I saw that with the Foo fighter sightings in World War Two. This is where we saw an increased interest. And, you know, my own experience. 99% of what people reported to me as UFOs, I could explain as natural phenomena. Government military activity that was attempted to be kept secret or a hoax. But there's a 1% residual. And what's interesting about that 1% residual, you can prove that it's real, but it's not physical. And we now have millions of documented cases of people observing this non-physical phenomena, but also explains why so many scientists dismiss UFOs. I mean, I briefly had Carl Sagan as a professor when I was at University of Toronto, and he was very dismissive of UFOs. There's nothing to it at all. And for people.

Ken McMullen:
Who don't know Carl Sagan's renowned or former renowned astrophysicist.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah, he was probably one of the most famous astronomers of the 20th century, mainly because of all the times he appeared on The Tonight Show on national television and a very charismatic fellow. But he was an atheist, or at least he was when he was teaching the class to us at the University of Toronto. And his worldview would not accept the existence of non-physical reality. As a Christian, my worldview does accept the possibility of non-physical reality. I mean, what you see in the Bible is that God has created at least two distinct species of intelligent life. We human beings who are subject to the laws of physics, of the universe and angels who are not. And so angels would be one possible explanation for non-physical reality. And I'm not the only physicist who's written about the UFO phenomena. There are at least six other physicists who have devoted a decade or more to studying UFOs and have written full length books on UFOs. As far as I know, I'm the only believer amongst the seven. But what I find interesting about all seven, they all conclude by saying we're dealing with something interdimensional, something that's not constrained by the spacetime dimensions of the universe. They also agree that we're dealing with is not beneficial. You know, it was Allen Hynek. He was the first physicist that the US government commissioned to do a serious study on UFOs. This was back in the 1960s and he is the one who coined the terms close encounters of the first kind, second kind and third kind. And what modern day physicists have been able to demonstrate. If you have one of these close encounters, the effects are deleterious. About the best you're going to come away from in one of those close encounters is recurring, terrifying nightmares. You say, what's the worst case scenario? People have been killed in their close encounters with UFOs.

Ken McMullen:
Was that happened?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, you know, a close encounter. The third and fourth kind is where the UFO actually makes physical contact with the human contactee. And so what happens is the human contactee is physically injured and recovers from the injury or they're killed. Another one I think they should classify in the same category is where the UFO results in the animals being owned by the human contact being injured or killed. That's actually more frequent where, say, the dogs or the cows that are opened by the human contact get injured or killed. Uh, but and then there's all these people who claim to be abducted aboard a UFO crafts. Some have claimed to have been sexually assaulted. And then there are those who go into a trance and they wind up communicating a message to humanity. Probably the most famous example of that would be the Urantia book, where a UFO contactee went into a trance and under a trance actually was dictated a message that became the Urantia book. And this is not a small book. Some editions are nearly 4000 pages. But what I find interesting about the Urantia book, a third of its content is denying the deity of Jesus Christ. So it kind of tells you that these. Yeah. So it has.

Ken McMullen:
An anti-Christ element.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
It does. There's also a deceptive element. I mean, what you notice about these close encounters, say, 120 years ago, they were telling their human contactee, we're from the back side of the moon. But once the lay public became aware that, you know, physical life is not possible on the back side of the moon, they changed their story. They said they were from Venus. They when people became aware of how hot it is on the surface of Venus, they said Mars. What they're telling their contactees now were from another planetary system. So I find it interesting. They seem to keep pace with the general knowledge of humans about astronomy. They also seem to keep pace with our technology. Again, if you go back 100 years, the UFOs were appearing to human contactees as slow moving dirigibles in the atmosphere. World War II, they were the Foo Fighters moving at the speed of sound. Now we see is that they appear as spacecraft moving at 15 to 18,000mph. So they seem to be keeping pace with human technology. And I look at both of those historical phenomena as warning signs. We're dealing with something deceptive.

Ken McMullen:
Yeah, something deceptive, something dark. And it seems most of the encounters where people are abducted, those seem to be memories taken through when they're put under hypnosis or something. Something where they give up their mind and they become open to suggestive thinking.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Right. In fact, what you see in the Bible that warns us not to give up control of your mind. Right. Or to avoid hypnosis or to avoid being put into a trance. And that's when these kinds of things do happen. You know what my colleagues and I wrote in our book, Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men. What's really interesting, I think what's unique about our book on UFOs is that we document that these encounters close encounters. They exclusively happen to people who have open doors to the occult. Either they do or a close relative or a sexual partner has these open doors. But when the doors are closed, that's the end of their UFO experiences. And I also find it interesting that nations of the world, we've got a higher percentage of the general population involved in the occult. You also have a higher percentage of the population reporting these close encounters with UFOs. And that even shows up in the 50 states of the United States, states where the incidence of occult activity is high like Alaska and Hawaii. We also see a correspondingly higher percentage of people claiming to have these encounters with UFOs. So our point is we're providing a testable, a scientifically testable explanation. If you open the doors of the occult, this is going to happen to you. Close the doors. That'll be the end of the phenomenon.

Ken McMullen:
Which really seems to be the same when it comes to anything paranormal. People opening themselves up to the occult, getting interested in dark things and dark spiritual things tend to be the ones who have more ghost encounters, don't you think?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
But it can also happen to people unknowingly. So, for example, in the church where I serve on the pastoral staff, we had a couple that purchased an old home and things were happening in that home. Literally, spoons were floating in mid-air. One room was about ten degrees colder than the other rooms, so they were persuaded that the previous owners must have left behind all called articles, but they weren't able to find them. But I remember going over to their home and saying, Look, before we do a thorough search, let's spend some time in prayer and ask God to reveal to us this hidden object. And then we went through the house and we could find nothing in the house but the room where all the activity was going on. I could see a faint octagonal outline on the wall and I could tell that the wall had been repainted just before it was sold. So we scraped under the paint and we found a dark midnight blue color. And I said, That's a favorite color for people who want to get involved in seances. Let's talk to the neighbors. And the neighbors told us that there were teenage boys that were conducting seances in that room before the house was sold. So he said, we need to find what that octagonal thing is. And we finally went into the garage and there was a pile of junk lumber up in the rafters of the garage. I said, That's the one place we haven't looked. Let's haul all that stuff down. It was quite a job. But in the middle of all that, junk lumber was an octagonal astrological forecaster. It perfectly matched the shape on the wall. We destroyed that object, and that was the end of weird things going on in the house. But that's an example where here's a Christian couple no open doors of the occult, but they purchased a home where the previous owners had opened doors to the occult.

Ken McMullen:
So in situations on a broader scale where. Military. Is witnessing and then documenting and radars are picking up something going too fast that, you know, a body would not handle. That is impossible. Denies physics. Um. Is there a broader deception going on then, to humanity or under what you're talking about? With the pilots personally be involved in some kind of a cult and it's triggering some kind of activity around them. And, you know.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
A lot of what the governments of the world are reporting being sighted by Navy pilots, Air Force pilots, a lot of what they're talking about is things that I think fall in the 99% category. You know, a chip, a tiny chip chip of paint breaks off from the jet aircraft. And, you know, it it gets heated up. You see this trajectory and it looks like it's violating the laws of physics. But that's on the assumption that it's far away. If it's close by, that's something that can be naturally explained. However, some of the things I've read from Navy and Air Force pilots, it's like they really are seeing something that's in the 1% category. And there I would look for an occult connection. But again, we're talking only 1% of what people report as UFOs. But I think the best examples where we can say, hey, we're dealing with something real but not physical is when a UFO is sighted by more than one person going through the atmosphere and is observed to crash into the earth. But when you see it going through the atmosphere, if you got multiple observers, you can calculate the velocity of its path.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
And what I noticed from all the cases I've looked at, the ground observers never report a sonic boom. They never report heat, friction. If it's going faster than the speed of sound, you will get a sonic boom. And if it's moving at 15,000mph, you're going to see significant heat friction behind the craft if indeed it's a physical craft. So the fact that that's not reported tells me that the fact that it crashes into the earth and you go to the crash site and you'll see a shallow crater. If there's snow, the snow is melted, the vegetation is consistently damaged. But as you search around the UFO crater site, no artifacts, no debris, If it was a physical craft, we would find plenty of debris. The fact that we see nothing tells us we're dealing with something that's not physical, but the fact that you've got a crater, the fact that you got damaged vegetation tells us we're dealing with something that is real. It's real, but not physical. And that explains why other astrophysicists like the French, Jacques Vallée and his multiple books on UFOs says we're dealing with something interdimensional.

Ken McMullen:
Okay. Not physical, but real. Right. So if it's spiritual, we're talking we back and put all together. You're talking about possible. The Bible talks about angels beings. These would be dark so fallen angels demonic category. But if they so but in my mind if I think, well, a fallen angel, I'm thinking of something that looks like an angel and you see something fly around and but something that looks like a craft, that's a living craft that crashes. That needs a little explanation, like, are they, uh, are these being driven by a spiritual being and it's a spiritual craft, or are they making themselves look like a craft and crashing? So we think it's a UFO.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, what you notice in the Bible is that angels do appear and they can appear in a variety of physical forms. I mean, we had Abraham entertaining a couple of angels, and he actually fed them food so they can appear and apparently physical form and they can appear in a variety of ways. I mean, one thing I've put in lights in the sky and little green men. This phenomenon has been with us a long time. And notice they can appear as a dirigible. They can appear as a foo fighter. They can appear as a spaceship moving at 18,000mph. They can appear as a leprechaun. We read the Bible. We notice that Satan appeared in the form of a serpent. Then you had this angel taking over Balaam's donkey and talking to Balam.

Ken McMullen:
Yeah, you mentioned leprechaun, but that's kind of a real thing, isn't it? I mean, we don't talk about it here, but is it in Ireland? I mean, we think of like the Lucky Charms guy, but isn't that some kind of folklore gnome? Kind of like our Bigfoot or Gnome?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
I mean, you know, I've made a trip to Iceland and people there believe in these kinds of things. But Iceland is a country where you got a very high level of occult activity by the population. And so I think that's the key point. These angels can appear in a variety of what we interpret to be physical forms. They can appear as an animal. They can appear as your dead grandfather, they can appear as a spaceship. And so it's not all surprising that we see this great variety of the ways that they make appearances to human beings.

Ken McMullen:
So what? So you mentioned interdimensional. What would, uh, interdimensional mean?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, that's a term that was coined by the French astrophysicist Jacques Vallée. He's an agnostic. I mean, from a biblical perspective, God has created the universe as a physical realm. For us human beings and physical life and planet Earth. But the Bible is clear that he's created a different realm for the angels. And it's not the same physics as our universe. And the difference is we humans are constrained to the physical universe. The angels are not. They can stay in their realm, but they have the power to come temporarily into our realm. I mean, you got Hebrews 13 two where the author of Hebrews says to Christians, Many of you have entertained angels unawares. They can appear in human form. I mean, we see this in the Book of Acts where an angel came and you know, set Peter free from the jail. But as soon as it's set free, the angel disappeared so they can come and go. They're not constrained to our physical realm, but unlike us, they can go for their realm into our realm and back to their realm and exactly what kind of physics their realm has, what the dimensions are. We only have a vague idea. It is different from our realm, that's for certain.

Ken McMullen:
And outside of what we would term time and space.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
It's outside of the spacetime dimensions of the universe and outside of the laws of physics that govern the universe.

Ken McMullen:
Okay. I don't, uh, I wouldn't be able to explain that or know the math to that, but follow how my brain works and if it's anywhere close. So you're in California, you're three hours difference in our time than where I'm at in the Midwest. But it's the same time. We're right now at the same time, but at a different time because of space. Making a time, a measurement of space, right? So if there wasn't the material between us of. I don't know. Air and roads and trees and everything that's between us. There wouldn't be a reason for time, right? So we would be outside of time. Isn't time a measurement of the material world? Am I anywhere close to thinking that time.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Is a measurement of the history of the universe and the cosmic creation event forward? And, you know, we humans have chosen to use the Earth's rotation rate as a way to measure small intervals of time. Which is why because the earth is rotating. The Earth is a fairly decent size. We are in, quote, different time zones. But, you know, we're communicating at the identical time. Now, if I was on the moon, you'd have to wait 1.5 seconds for my voice to come into your studio because that's how long it would take light to travel. Uh, you know, the distance between the two of us is so tiny. Only about 2500 miles that you don't notice a time delay. And in my speaking. So. But what we're talking about with these interdimensional beings, they do live in a different realm. And, you know, I had the good fortune when I was an undergraduate mathematics student to take a full year course on extra dimensional mathematics. And what's interesting is once you get beyond the four spacetime dimensions of the universe, really weird things can happen. And our professor had the audacity to sign us mathematics problems to determine what's possible in these extra dimensions and what's not possible. I wound up writing a book on this called Beyond the Cosmos, where I basically took what I could from the physics of this universe to try to determine what is the physics of the new creation, what is the physics of the the realm in which the angels live and recognize, for example, in the universe we're constrained to a single dimension at time that can't be stopped or reversed.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
But in the new creation, I believe God's going to deliver us into geometric time, which means we're going to be able to relate to one another, not just along a single dimension of time, but at least the equivalent of a second dimension of time. And that's going to relieve us of the frustration, the frustration I have as a Christian. There is a lot of people I'd like to spend time with, but because of my limitations in space and time, I got to pick one person at a time. I remember when I gave my life to Jesus Christ saying, Gee, when I get to heaven, my name is close to the end of the alphabet. I'm going to have to wait several million years to have a private conversation with the Apostle Paul. But what I wrote about and beyond the cosmos, God's going to give the Apostle Paul the capability of having billions of simultaneous private one on one conversations.

Ken McMullen:
And you're going to be given a new name. Maybe it'll start with an A anyway.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah, it might start with an A? Exactly. Or there might be some other alphabet. But explains why. You see, in the Book of Revelation there are no families that are no marriages in the new creation. It's no longer necessary because we're no longer going to be constrained to a single dimension of time. But explains why the angels have powers we don't have because they're not living under the same dimensional constraints that we're under.

Ken McMullen:
All right. Finally, Dr. Ross, with your time on the Internet, meaning social media lately, the ancient aliens, the ancient astronaut theorists and these guys, as well as a book that was out a while back. Talk about the return. Of the Anunnaki. Did I pronounce that right?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Yeah, you did. And I've got a book coming out later this year.

Ken McMullen:
You always have a book coming out.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Always got a book coming out. This. This one is actually.

Ken McMullen:
Written all those books behind you?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Probably so. But I have a chapter in this book. It's called Rescuing Inerrancy. And I put a chapter in there because a lot of theologians have this idea that the ancient peoples were quite backward and, you know, not very advanced in their science. And, you know, I've had quite a bit of background and research in the history of astronomy and basically made the point they didn't need help from intelligent aliens to they.

Ken McMullen:
Weren't just hunter gatherers throwing sticks and arrows.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
They weren't they, they and their cosmology was quite advanced. Right. And so you've probably heard of Stonehenge. It's a stone structure in England. And back in the 60s, astronomers examined this and realized it's more than just a spiritual worship site. It's a stone observatory because back in ancient times they didn't have telescopes, but they had this strong desire to measure astronomical phenomena with positional precision. And so they built these stone structures that would enable them to stand back, say, 300 yards or half a mile back and use the, you know, close proximity, these stones kind of like a gun sight. And and that enabled them to make astronomical measurements to better than 1/30 the diameter of the moon in the sky literally the ancient antiquity.

Ken McMullen:
They were wicked smart, smarter than most of us will ever be.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, not only that, we now know that Stonehenge is not the exception that the peoples all over the world had built thousands of these stone observatories, some of them more than 30 times bigger than Stonehenge. And with these stone observatories, they were able to determine the size of the earth, that the earth was a sphere. They had measured its diameter to 1% precision. They knew the distance to the moon. They knew the distance to the sun. They knew that the sun was the center of the solar system. And they also knew that the stars were bodies like the sun, because they tried to use their stone observatories to measure the distances to the stars. They couldn't do it and realize they had to be extremely distant and given their brightness, they likely were objects like the sun. So they had a rather sophisticated understanding of the nearby heavens. And and they were able to use these precision measurements to be able to build these amazing stone structures like the pyramids, the Ziggurats and Babylon, the structures we see in the North America and South America. Bottom line, this speculation that's being fostered in the 20th and 21st century that these ancient peoples must have gotten their technology from aliens have visited our planet. There is no truth to that at all.

Ken McMullen:
So that's what the Annunaki is, right? The Anunnaki are supposedly gods that came down, gave ancient technology. They left and they're on their way back.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
That's that's the story. And both Christian authors and non-Christian authors have written books that have sold in the millions promoting this idea.

Ken McMullen:
Now, why Christian authors? So are they Anunnaki? It seems like there's some mention of a group of people in the Old Testament. Um. Well that had similar name. Are they are they associating them with this this group of people?

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Well, what you see in some of the apocryphal Old Testament books is references to the watchers, which are supposedly the book of Enoch. You like the Book of Enoch? Exactly. And you do see in the Bible that the Sons of God came and had intercourse with the daughters of men, and this is the Raphaim or the Nephilim, you know, examples would be like Goliath that was killed by David. And so they're saying, well, maybe these sons of God were aliens coming to us in these spaceships from other planetary systems. And that explains what we see in the book of Enoch, what we see in Genesis chapter six, verses two and four. But what I put in this book coming out later this year is that that. As we understand the technology and the motivation, I mean, often to we get modern day Bible scholars saying that the ancients didn't have a scientific motivation or they weren't spiritually motivated. The truth is they were just as intelligent as us. They were just as motivated to learn. They were technologically quite sophisticated, especially when we take into account they were dealing with much more severe climate instability than what we have. I mean, for the past thousand years, humanity has had the global mean temperature stable to better than plus or -0.06°C. That is a big reason explaining the huge advance in our technology over the past thousand years. And so if you go back eight, nine, 10,000 years, you're dealing with a situation where the climate isn't as stable as it is today.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Nevertheless, it's amazing in spite of that climate instability, what the ancients were able to achieve. And so I think we have to stop looking down on them. They. They were just as motivated to learn about science as we were. I mean, it bothers me that 21st century theologians are saying the people of Moses generation didn't care two bits about astronomy, science or cosmology. And there's plenty of documented material in the ancient historical record saying they were incredibly advanced, so advanced, in fact, that we astrophysicists actually dig in to the ancient Egyptian astronomical records to actually build superior models of the interiors of variable stars, because we're looking at data that they recorded about stars 3000, 4000, 5000 years ago. We can compare that with the measurements we're making today and say, hey, over the past 4000 years, the star changed this way. And what's amazing is without telescopes, the Egyptians are able to record the periodicity of variable stars to five places of the decimal, very high precision work. An amazing achievement when you think they didn't have telescopes, but they had these stone observatories and over a hundred years they could make measurements accurate to five places to the decimal. We compare their measurements with the measurements we make today and actually enables us to learn a whole lot more about the interior physics of stars than we could have if we didn't have those ancient astronomical records.

Ken McMullen:
We know 2000 years ago, an unknown number of them across the world were able to determine a location and a time a Christ was to be born.

Speaker4:
Looking at the stars.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Hey, referring to what you see in Daniel chapter nine. And what's interesting about Daniel, his prophecy is the only book in the Bible that predicts the timing of the coming of the Messiah. Not precisely, but to within plus or minus a few years. And so I've written a couple of articles on the Christmas Star basically saying The Magi, the Wise Men, they would have been familiar with the prophecy of Daniel because Daniel is the greatest of the wise men. And so they would have been looking for some sign that this was the time. And so they saw this star, a new star. And what you see in the ancient historical records, these ancient astronomers kept records of guest stars. Now, a guest star we would refer to today as a nova. It's a star that's not visible to the naked eye. But as it accumulates matter from a partner star, it undergoes a huge explosion where for a few months it becomes visible in the night sky and then it fades away and becomes invisible. And there's a tiny subcategory of these novae that recur. And so I believe the Magi saw a recurring nova because the book of Matthew tells us the star appeared in the East. It disappeared. And while they're on their way to Bethlehem, the star appeared to them again. And probably about a year and a half difference between the two sightings, because what it tells us is that King Herod very carefully questioned the Magi about the time when they saw the first appearance. And on that basis, he killed all the firstborn boys in Bethlehem that were under the age of two. So I think there's probably about a year and a half between the two sightings. Right.

Ken McMullen:
All right. All right. Thank you once again for the people listening, if you have questions of which everyone does, um, anything really in Scripture, especially when it comes to astrophysics things, space time, how it relates to the Bible, whether it's dinosaurs in the Bible or, um. You know, how did God come to be if he was never created? And all these kind of things everyone thinks about go to reasons.org and just look around. Search between Dr. Ross's materials podcasts. There's so many books and blogs you're going to find everything you're looking for and believe they're pretty active on social media, at least trying to answer questions as well. Yeah, that's.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
True. I mean, I have a Twitter account and a Facebook account where I do take questions and you know, some days I get 301 day I don't promise to answer all the questions, but I try to answer the most. So they end.

Ken McMullen:
Up being pretty similar, though, like a clump of the same questions.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
They do. And I've got a you know, I get through those questions fairly quickly because there's a question I've answered before. I just give them a URL. Go here and here's your answer. But on our reasons.org website, you'll literally find tens of thousands of articles. There's even a thing that I write called Questions from Social Media, where you'll see my written responses to the most common questions.

Ken McMullen:
All right. Perfect. All right. Thank you. Always appreciate it. Thanks for coming on.

Dr. Hugh Ross:
Oh, you're my pleasure.

Speaker1:
Gavin. Among the outlaws, he said, Come, follow me. People from all walks of life since.

Have been becoming outlaws.

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