Amish Amiss: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Amish Amiss: this mp4 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Ken McMullen:
Welcome to Becoming outlaws. If this is your first time here or if it's not becoming outlaws, engages celebrities, scholars and diverse voices in candid conversations about following Jesus, defying societal norms and exploring profound and sometimes not so profound questions of faith. Today's episode is entitled Amish A. Before we get started, please subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to or viewing this like it, share it, all that stuff. You know what to do. It helps the algorithm so more people will find this and others in the future. So what about the Amish? I've been wanting to do a program on the Amish, really, since I started, and I'm just getting around to it. Um, you may know. Well, you may know that they make great furniture, you know, And I'm from the Midwest, and you drive in Ohio or Pennsylvania, and there along the side of the road, out of traffic, heading to the store or whatever they're doing. And what a peaceful life, Serene. Here's a little background before we get started. The Amish are a religious and cultural group. They're primarily in the US, Canada, but they came from Europe originally. They're known mainly for, as I was saying, simple living, a plain, simple dress and a reluctance to adopt modern technology and its conveniences. They are descendants of Swiss anabaptists and adhere to the teachings of Jacob Ammann, an Anabaptist leader.
Ken McMullen:
And that's how they got their name. So, you know, they say they're Christian. You'd consider them Protestant. However, they add the teachings of this Jacob guy, which comes that's where the myth comes from. Whenever you add a whole lot of rules and regulations on top of Christianity and you're outside the law, something's going to go down. That's what we're going to talk about from the outside. Like I said, it's kind of romanticism. It's a nice, quiet life. Helping each other. Don't want to be stereotypical, but, you know, building barns and milking cows and whatever. Or is it. We're going to find out today. We're going to discuss if there's something amiss with the Amish. And my my sister has been telling me to get Eli Yoder on this program ever since I started doing the podcast. I'm like, Well, get the Amish, I'll see or whatever. And I looked him up and we've got him. Uh, he left the Amish at 18 and he does video blogs. This guy has a million and a half TikTok followers, and he's a guest preacher. And he came out of the Amish community, and he's helping others get out of the community. The community and his digital social media world is based on exposing what he calls a manmade religion and beliefs that are not Bible based. So here we go. Welcome, Eli.
Eli Yoder:
Thank you very much for having me on.
Ken McMullen:
Hey, thanks for coming on. I'm excited. So did I explain in my brief high level overview, is that pretty accurate of Amish history? Amish life from the outside?
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You explained it right to a T? It's pretty accurate. I mean, there's a lot of different types of Amish as of 2023 because the original system started, you know, in the 17th century when they came over as the anabaptists from Switzerland. And you know, Jacob Almond, he he would shun his own family because, well, he wanted to do his own thing. So he wrote what is called the Articles of Faith. And there's some scripture in that, you know, I call it cherry picking the scriptures. So he wrote what was the first ordinance? And he started followers. And since then it's been, well, more than 250,000 Amish now. And there's more than 2000 settlements of Amish. And they all have, you know, break away from the original system because they might not agree. So then they start their own community with their own rules. They'll vote on as long as they vote on agreements with the majority of the group, they'll sign off on it. And that's what you got to follow in that community. And if you don't agree with it, then you got to move on and maybe join another community or start your own. So there's a lot of new ones that just started this year in 2023.
Ken McMullen:
Wow. So back up on a higher level under the Amish umbrella is Mennonites, which are probably pretty different, right? They seem more modern. They can wear colored clothes and maybe have a cell phone and whatnot. What makes the and if I've got this right, the traditional Amish more separated over more of the rules and the shunning of people or the Mennonites seem to have a little more flexibility in living. Is that right? Is that kind of the main differences?
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah, they're way more flexible. They don't have as many rules, but yet most of the Mennonites still do operate under an ordinance and they do still practice like what's called shunning or excommunication to make somebody feel shameful for breaking some rules according to the church. And but they're the same as the Amish, though, where you have not the original Mennonites, the way they started, like they had a lot of splits, a lot of disagreements, just like the Amish. So they'll have different levels of Mennonites. You got the black bumper Mennonites, you got the Mennonites that are called like the beachy Mennonites. I've interviewed even people that come out of these communities and thought what was interesting when I got to speaking to some of these former Mennonites is they have a name. It's like a bishop's name or a pastor's name. Beachy Mennonite, like the Amish have the church, the the Beachy Amish. There's also the Beachy Amish, just like the Mennonites. But they all at one time were attached to that same branch. But then they split off so many different times. Some keep the name, some start new names. And that's interesting to me because what about Jesus? What about following Christ and following the truth in the Bible? Because you're following what man established rather than the truth in the Bible.
Ken McMullen:
Okay. So I want to get into a little bit of the doctrine or the beliefs and then the differences of pure Christianity. But in the day in the life of so you're considered an older order and does that mean that. You stay as strict to the original Jacob Amman rules in in procedures? That is correct. Than more modern ones.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah, we would have been considered. What? Well, they practice what they believe is the original Articles of Faith. What was in that? That's what they try to stick with. That's why we called ourselves old order Amish. And we even in our church actually rejected and didn't fellowship with any of the New Order Amish that allowed like Rumspringa a season of running around exploring the world so they wouldn't have nothing to do with them. Now there is a group called Swartzentruber Amish that has almost identical the way we were. But we didn't take that name. We didn't like that name. We just went with the original old order system.
Ken McMullen:
Wow. So on an average day outside of the the belief system, what was your day like? What time do you get up? What do you do? How much school did you do? Um, how many cows did you milk? I mean, don't be stereotypical, but what was the day? As an Amish kid growing up.
Eli Yoder:
430 in the morning, you heard the. The broom hitting the floorboards underneath because we were. Us boys always slept upstairs. There's ten of us. And so you heard that that was time to get up. So we had to get up and start milking cows. That's the first thing you did. You had to milk all the cows. I had two that were assigned to me. And then you go around you and you feed all the other animals. And as soon as that's done, you go in. The. My mom and my sisters had the breakfast ready and at the breakfast table, that's when you get all the assignments for the day. You know, one brother goes here and does this. Maybe one of them gets sent out into the Amish community to do a barn raising. So one of them goes plows and the other one goes and helps the neighbor. And, you know, there's always there's an assignment for that's why they like having a lot of kids because you get you sound like you're Mario, you get the farming done.
Ken McMullen:
You sound like you're stereotyping Amish, but that really is an Amish life. We're going to raise another barn and milk the cows and and you really had to milk the cows, right? I mean, you couldn't not milk them. It wasn't just for milk. You you had to physically or physically hurt the cows. Isn't that right?
Eli Yoder:
Oh, yes, absolutely. In the morning they had to be milked. And in the evening, if you didn't, they can get an infection.
Ken McMullen:
And what age are we talking about? Did you have a childhood or as soon as you could milk a cow, you're milking cows. And did you? Yeah, as soon.
Eli Yoder:
As you're strong enough to do so. Then that was at age seven. And you really try your best because at age seven, you're told that if you can milk cows, you're now also strong enough to have your own horse and buggy where you can guide the horse and be on your own. You can go down the highway with it.
Ken McMullen:
Oh, so if you grew up in a culture, what you did. So I'm thinking hypothetically, if I grew up in a culture that didn't have like growing ears and playing with toys, really, or whatever, you were a worker. Because you were alive and that's what kids were. Did you know you were missing out or something? So if you didn't have all playtime around you and playgrounds, is there something innate in a kid that like, I'm missing something? Or if you don't have those things, do you just you just don't know the difference?
Eli Yoder:
Well, we knew the English neighbors. We had a lot of other non-Amish people around us. We saw what they were doing. We we really looked up to that. We wanted to be at a playground ride, a bike like they were. So we saw all those kind of things. So we knew it was out there and that's obviously what I was craving at a young age. I was, yeah, I was really looking up to those kind of people driving a car and riding a bike. Those were things were that were that I was interested in.
Ken McMullen:
And you couldn't ride a bike, right? So sometimes So on the outside, I think of like Amish as well, electronics. But it went way beyond that. Mean you weren't allowed to ride a bike, which was not electronic at all. It was just a rule.
Eli Yoder:
Right? Yeah, that was just a church rule. I mean, there's a lot of Amish that ride bikes. I went all the way up to taking the classes for baptism just before I left the Amish, and I got caught riding a bike, the English neighbor's bike. And I got disqualified for baptism for that. And right after that, I left.
Ken McMullen:
Just qualify for baptism for riding a bike. Yes, I don't want to be disrespectful, but you know, now that's nutty, right?
Eli Yoder:
Yes, absolutely. Well, the reason they couldn't stand me, I questioned them because we had a newer style Amish 20 minutes up the road that rode bikes. And I remember when they told me that that would send you to hell that I can't get baptized now. A rule wouldn't please God. I remember questioning him like, Hey, the ones that are up the road, those Amish are. They're claiming to still go to heaven. They got bikes. Oh, they said, do as you're told. Don't question us.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. As soon as I consider there's so many wide definitions of cult, I consider a cult out of scripture that says any belief that denies really Jesus is God in the flesh is a doctrine of demons. Well, that's not the Amish. Amish have a Christian Protestant doctrine, however. When you're all manmade rules, you're going down the wrong road. And it seems to me. When you don't have the fruits of the spirit, which the Amish community doesn't seem. And I guess I'm speaking way general terms, so you can correct me. They look gentle, but it seems like a righteousness for show and that what you hear is that under that the reason said Amish a there's something amiss going on and that when you have man made rules and they're. Penalties for this or that. Deciding who goes to hell not not based on the acceptance of Christ, salvation and sacrifice for you, but based on riding a bike or leaving our community whenever it's shunning and you're kicked out of family and whatnot, that's when I go ahead and I put that in the cult arena. When you exclude separate and it has nothing to do with the love of Christ, but it's under religion.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I mean, I always say this when they want to control somebody. Yeah. By the way, shunning is not even biblical. I mean, it's it's un-christlike, you know, to to go out there and try to shun somebody that disagrees with your theology, that that is not in the Bible. It's it's manmade organized religion. Now, there's a lot of New Order Amish that are way more open to talk about why they do what their beliefs are. But the original system, the old order, where I come from, they get very disturbed when you speak to outsiders about their system and how the church operates, how you got to confess your sins before the church. They don't want that stuff to leak out. And I remember recently there was some former Amish that said that before they left, they were talking about me. The elders were and they were saying, you know how there's a lot of people like me, former Amish, that are now making awareness and speaking out? Boy, they did not like that because before before there was former Amish, nobody was really exposing the system within the church. But they are very good at putting on a show. They like to use the Christian label, like a lot of religious people do. And therefore, outside looking in, they look very kind, loving. They make the great food, they make awesome crafts, they have quality construction. They do. Everybody loves how the Amish portray themselves. But when you talk about the nitty gritty in the side of the church, that is when it all changes.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. And if people listening are thinking, well, you're just those are other people's beliefs, you're being judgmental. They can people can believe and live how they want to live. But think what we haven't hit on yet is in part of the shunning is you can't live how you want to live. You can't leave. And if you do leave? Well, you can't as a kid. You can't support yourself if you leave when you're 18 like you did, you're kind of excommunicated. They believe you're going to hell, right?
Eli Yoder:
Yes, absolutely. I was even told that.
Ken McMullen:
And it comes down to the type of color. The color. The kind of clothes you wear. It has nothing to do with scripture And what you know, I ain't no theologian, but I spend time in ministry, whether with adults or I've been a professor at a Christian college and I've worked with youth. When I was younger, I always went by one principle as a guideline where Scripture says that you can make manmade rules, don't taste, don't touch, don't do this. And it's scripture itself says manmade rules have no value. No value. And and then the scripture later says, if you learn to live by the spirit, you don't fulfill the desires of the flesh. So the whole thing is, if you're listening from the outside and this is my concern for not just like Amish people, I get angry, as I think you do with organized religion. There's always abuse in it. It's controlling. It's very close to the cult world. Because people don't know they're duped. But even take a step back, I'm very concerned and I have people kind of share their testimony. Like not only did you grow up in a Christian church, but when did you become a Christian? And that, like confuses people. But you can be under the umbrella of a church that says Christian. You can, as you know, you can be in a denomination that says Christian and you can be in a Christian so-called family. But that's a label. A Christian is being born again. And so. And if you're born again, you're living by the spirit and you have patience. I mean, nobody's perfect. You're not living like that all the time. But as a culture and a church setup, it's not made on fear and control. And so you having grown up in a Christian environment, so much so that the whole lifestyle is based on simplicity and simplicity and being holy and Christ like and this and that, but yet it sounds like you don't feel like you became a Christian until later. So how would you explain the difference?
Eli Yoder:
Well, at that time, growing up in it, I thought that was true. Christianity at a young age, I believed everything I was taught. I thought we were special in God's eyes. I even would have defended them most of my Amish life because I thought, well, surely God would favor us because we got more rules than even other Amish. So it became like if a prideful kind of attitude. And so when I left, I'll be honest with you, my thinking didn't did not admit it to anybody at the time. But I thought when I left, I thought I would go to hell. I thought that was the only Christian way. And so that's why I ran from God for 19 years. You know, I did. I lived how I wanted. I thought if I just lived however I wanted before I do go to hell, at least it'd be better than what I was in. Because I went through I went through some bad stuff. If you know all of my testimony, if you watch me online. But so by 2017, I finally read an English written Bible during reading that Bible in the book of John is Where I Got Saved. It changed my entire life. But in the original system of Amish, you are not allowed to have Bible studies. We were forbidden to have an English written Bible. And so the 1522 Martin Luther Bible is what we were forced to read. But you can't interpret it on your by yourself. You have to ask the elders. You go to the church elders, and if you question how they interpret it, you're a bad guy. You can't question because they're the top authority. They're the bishop, the deacon, the elders. So, you know, you just don't have no biblical truths. And when you don't allow biblical truth, then. John chapter 830, 31 and 32 can't happen where it says, If you know the truth, the truth shall set you free.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. Even though that Bible says of itself that you won't even need a teacher because the Holy Spirit will teach you all things and in all truth. But you can't. Even so that's what people on the outside don't see in these things. They say, Well, that's a Christian group. Really. What does a Christian group keep the Christian Bible away from people in learning it? No. And talked to Mormons and on this program and they all say the same thing. Like I'll say, How did you come to Faith? You thought you were a Christian, but you realized you weren't. They said, Well, I snuck away and read the New Testament. And I realized that's not the Book of Mormon. That's not what I knew my whole life. And. And they do what you do. They they're mad at the system, but they care for the people. So when we talk about the Amish people, I'm not putting people down. It's because you care about the people still there that don't know. And you have family there.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yes. I've went out and I've read, by the way, when I first got set free, I'm a truck driver. So I was in my truck the day when I got saved and it transformed me. I got so hungry, I went up more and I just kept reading. And and by that weekend I could not contain myself. I said, you know, if I receive it this way, I know my mom probably will. So I'm excited. You know, I put on my Amish clothing, park my car next door, follow all the rules that she told me I must do if I come out to visit. And I remember sitting down with my Bible open and I shared every verse about salvation in Jesus Christ. I didn't get very far. And she cut me off. She reminded me that anybody of the world that claims to be saved has already been very prideful and deceived by the devil. And so she was not willing to receive salvation. But yet I said, Mom, you know, if you open your German Bible, I have I have matched it side by side. The German, Martin Luther and the English said, it's in German. She says, Well, I'd have to go ask the elders about it. But the elders always say that if you say you're saved, you've already been deceived by the devil. I mean just the veil. The veil is still there, and I just couldn't convince her. Ah, the services.
Ken McMullen:
Are the services in German.
Eli Yoder:
All of them have to be in German. Yes. Wow.
Ken McMullen:
Wow, That's old school. That is old school.
Eli Yoder:
Yes.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. You know, and I feel like I'm really coming down, but it's it riles me up these topics with these groups because it's so deceptive. And these people like you spending your whole life in childhood trying to follow rules to please God when it's doing the opposite. Because it's only. Uh, taking away from what Christ did. Like we can add nothing to what he did. But yet these religions call themselves Christianity. In all it is is acting like Christ perfect life and his sacrifice were not enough for you. You have to finish it. You have to not ride a bike. You have to wear this blue shirt and button it up or what? It's so ridiculous and full of arrogance.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah. It's truly, you know. What is that? Two Corinthians 314, 15, 16. It talks about when the law of Moses is read. The veil lies over their eyes and over their heart. And only it can only be revealed through Christ Jesus. So here's what it's going to come down to for any of those religious groups, not just my people, the Amish, but once they put their faith in Jesus Christ and believe in their hearts that it was truly finished at the cross, then the Holy Spirit can come in and work with a mustard seed sized faith. But if they have their hearts hardened against God and they say we must follow the rules and they depend on their own self-righteousness, it's just always going to remain a veil. Yeah.
Ken McMullen:
So what we've talked up to this point is theological, it's doctrinal. And if that doesn't concern some people listening, let's go a little deeper into if you're living by strict rules that people can adhere to and we're all human. And if you're not living by the spirit, then you are living by the desires of your flesh. But you're in a community where you can't admit it and people really can't help you. And you're not allowed to go to authorities if things happen. So there are abuses in places like the Amish, but how widespread is it and what kind of criminality is actually there because of their disconnect with. A normal law enforcement.
Eli Yoder:
Well being being cut off to society, which they believe you must be separate from the world. They look at everything else's of the world outside the Amish church. So since they are so cut off to society, the church system in itself and how they operate and how they deal with crimes, since that is so secret and still I always say thank God for our Constitution and our freedom of religion, You can practice whatever religion you want in the United States, but it should never those freedoms should never be used to then hide evil. And because they are so cut off from society, there are lots of crimes that I didn't realize how bad it was because that's all I was used to. Then when I left. And I'm seeing the same kind of crimes on the news and I see, you know, hearings. I'm hearing the radio. I had an XM radio when I first became a truck driver. And I remember the first time that I heard somebody that had re-offended as a sexual predator that got like 30, 40 years in prison. And I remember I listened to that interview and how justice is served out here. And that's when it dawned on me, Wow, I remember my own uncle more than 15 times.
Eli Yoder:
Had he done the same crime and he was forgiven. If you show remorse, you go before the church on your knees, You confess that sin to the bishop of the church. You are voted on to be forgiven. You will go through a shunning period for maybe six weeks. But when you're voted to be forgiven, you cannot bring that back up. So these victims are in the same homes as some of these perpetrators, and they can easily recommit that crime because there's no true justice. But the Amish system protects that individual that wants to remain Amish. Now, if you want to break away like I did and you had committed that, they have no problem calling the cops on that individual because now you no longer want to be part of their system. They will not protect you. But as long as you want to be committed to the Amish church, they will be forgiven. There's no court, no DA, no judge, no justice system. There's none of that in the Amish. There's no jail in the Amish. It is 100%. You have to forgive. And by the way, if any victim brings that back up, they they get more weeks of shunning than the actual perpetrator.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah, because it's forgiven. Forget. And. And the punishments. This time. Well, at least they're doing a little something. A little slap on the wrist. But they're the same. Or not even worse if they got caught riding a bicycle or something. Right? I mean, we're not talking. They take these legalistic rules. It's more important that represent holiness than our nonsense like. How you buttoned your shirt or whatever to pedophilia or incest and all this stuff that's going on. Beastiality. I mean, I'm not going too far to say that's happening. Right. Because the Amish kids aren't educated well.
Eli Yoder:
Did a video on that one time? Because I had several former Amish that were baptized and they were sitting through the confessions and then they left. I disqualified for baptism. So I didn't get to sit through some of those confessions. But after speaking with them, they were telling me that the number one confessed sins that they heard confessed before the church was actually bestiality. And they did a video at that time on TikTok, and they got over 4 million views because people had no idea that Amish men would do such a thing. But that's something that is so rampant among the old order that there's no control over it. It's like, Hey, oh, well, it's just an animal. Let's just vote on forgiving. And you got maybe two weeks in the band and it's over with.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah, I don't think people have any idea. And don't want to put anybody under an umbrella. But anytime it's legalism and a separation and handling illegal activity internally. Is a problem. Jehovah's Witness does the same kind of thing. People coming out of there just saying, you know, they're abused as children or this or that and and nobody it never go to the police. Yeah, it's hard. It's heartbreaking. So how do you.
Eli Yoder:
The we were we were forbidden for calling the law as well. So we we actually had a very young age. We had a physically abusive father. So we were told we couldn't go, you know, to outside law enforcement because the church has to handle that. So because of that system, you know, you can if you use fear not to call the worldly people, then you just stay there and put up with it.
Ken McMullen:
You know, I've I've studied a lot of religions and cults and stuff, and honestly, I haven't looked that much into this Jacob Almond guy, but so I could be wrong in this instance. But in a lot of instances, whether it's Joseph Smith with the Latter Day Saints or whatever, but you'll find out is a lot of these rules these guys make up, the so called prophets is so they can be away from the law and live and have either tons of wives or they can be with children or animals in the barn and nobody do anything about it. And it becomes a religion. Yes.
Eli Yoder:
Anybody to get me fired up saying that that was a truth bomb right there.
Ken McMullen:
It was a truth bomb. It's by some person that should not have been free in society that found a way under religion to not only become rich and tax free, but to live every perversion he ever wanted. And he just calls it a revelation by an angel or whatever.
Eli Yoder:
Yep. Yeah. It's quite it's alarming with with some of those. And I always have to say, look, not all Amish are this way. When I get into the good, the bad and the ugly within the system of the church, there is a lot of good Amish out there. I always want to mix that in because I've had a lot of very good hearted, loving Amish reach out to me that allow phones now. And because society does change and I always give them credit, if you're doing the right thing and you have mandated reporting and you report all crimes to law enforcement. Good for you. God bless you for doing the right thing. But I'm not throwing you under the bus with my system where I come from. But that will not stop me from exposing the religious ones that are dangerous.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah, And if you know the truth, see if you agree with me on this, Eli, I feel like I'm a Christian, and no one has to agree with that. I'm not going to put anybody down for not having my beliefs. That's what I believe. But I'm so secure and sure of it is truth that I'm willing to listen to and be exposed what anybody else has to say. And if they'll let me share what I have to say, I would not have a college son who's willing to philosophy or whatever. And I know other people that would have like Christian parents. I'd say, don't study that stuff. You know, a lot of it's atheist or whatever, but study it all, read it all, because I'm 100% sure that when you circle back, you're going to come back because there's only one truth and only one thing that makes sense. And I don't have any insecurities about it. And all of these cults or religions that label themselves as a major religion and change the doctrine and hide like we're a Christian group and you can't read the Bible. It's crazy. Well, they have something to hide. If Jacob Allman is right with his rules, then you have Bible studies every day and the more secure in his teachings, but you're not allowed to read it. And in the Mormon faith, you can't just go. If you say in the Mormon Faith Church of Latter day Jesus, Latter day Saints, that you believe the Jesus of the New Testament, you are excommunicated and going to hell. Wow. And they call themselves a Christian organization because that's not the Jesus that Joseph Smith presents. So they never let them just read it in isolation because it's not Christianity. But if it was true and you were sure Joseph Smith heard an angel and it was really Jesus giving a new revelation, study everything and you're going to end up back to Joseph Smith, but you won't end up to Joseph Smith. You're going to find out he was a pervert.
Eli Yoder:
Yeah, you have to study it, you know? There's a reason why the Bible says my people perish due to lack of knowledge and love. What you just said about your son. You know, go study all of it. Don't hold back from any of it. Educate yourself. But when you're restricted from reading certain stuff or even reading the Bible, they can hold you hostage. You're in bondage of religion at that point. But if you educate yourself and you're open minded and you're willing to learn all you can, you're going. Your eyes will be opened up to the truth real quick.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah, yeah. I have a blog that goes on my website and people get Christians get confused because all have a whole thing just talking about the life and the beliefs of the Buddha. Well, why do you have it on there? Because it's not true. He has some pretty smart things, but study it. It's a part of world history. It's a part of culture. But end with have you heard this podcast yet? And it's going to be a former Buddhist telling you that it led him to some dark places till he found Jesus. But I'm not going to hide Buddhism because I'm not afraid of it. It's false.
Eli Yoder:
Absolutely love that. I admire that man. I wish there was more people like that. Be open minded to read into it. Educate yourself. You know, Read it.
Ken McMullen:
Ron Hubbard, Scientology. Have a whole thing on him. Read what he believes. He's just a science fiction writer. He made a science fiction religion. And he they get tax breaks. That's all it is. Anyway. I like you, sir. So what are you. So you have all of these social media things going out. And it's interesting to people like me who don't you know, you can't get a glimpse in there. You can't 2020 Dateline's don't even hardly get in there and see what's really happening. And if they did, it's going to be all staged. So it's interesting to hear when people come out of organizations like that. But beyond the interest level of outsiders, are you having success reaching Amish people who can't aren't supposed to be viewing social media?
Eli Yoder:
Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, it's been very it's just been amazing, mind blowing, to be honest with you, to use the right phrase, mind blowing, because as of 2023, who would have thought that all of these phones and technology would smuggle their way into Amish communities, the most strictest of communities have them. Okay, so I didn't realize how many of them have them until I had over a million followers and start getting well. Some of them are bashing me. Some of them are trying to attack me and some are trying to silence me. And others are saying, Hey, I see what you're doing, can you help me get out? I have helped more than 200 of them leave the Amish. Okay. So it's it's been one here. Here's how I put it. So drugs are illegal in America, but yet they're here. Phones are not allowed in Amish communities, but yet they have them. It's it's one of those things that that just made its way in. And then I have also smuggled some phones in. It's not illegal to do so. So I have had some drivers that communicate with me and we've put them in certain locations or give them to the driver and he gets it to them and they'll hide them under hay bales in the barn or leave them at the neighbors and charge them at the neighbor's garage or in his barn.
Eli Yoder:
And they have been communicating with me. And it's just been it's been a beautiful thing to be able to reach back and help those that want to leave. Don't force them into believing anything if they have if they want to choose to practice something different and live a different life, it's my duty to help my people, the Amish leave to freedom and then make let them be free to choose. It took me 19 years to come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ after I left. So I want them to think for themselves, choose for themselves, think for yourselves, and undo the mental abuse, spiritual abuse that has been done all of their life. And usually when I allow them to make their own decisions, that's what really clicks in. That's when their eyes are open. Like, Whoa, you're not trying to control me. You're not trying to tell me what to do and just let them think for themselves before you know it, man, they're they're free. And some of them go a little bit too crazy. We try to get them with some groups of Amish that are doing construction and and make a life for themselves and get a Social Security number and get into the taxation system and everything else.
Ken McMullen:
Do you see which is common in people who leave cults, is they. Usually don't become Christian, they become nothing. They'll never have anything to do with organized religion ever again when they realize they've been manipulated and abused.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah. And that is why you'll hear me a lot of times in videos on my platforms talking about how hate religion. I have no problem saying hate religion. The ones that are that are controlling people, manipulating people, lying. Let's be honest. It's a lie. It's a bunch of lies. When those people come out of those situations, 90%, probably maybe 95% of the Amish have helped leave. They were off the rails for a while. I mean, it's almost too much freedom too fast. Some of them laying in jail. Some of them are in jail for a long time. Some of my best friends that helped leave the Amish are in prison right now. Well, you wouldn't know what to do. They had so much freedom so fast. You know, they got doing drugs and sleeping with women. They don't know what their age are. And before you know it, their whole life is a mess. But it's all goes back to their sheltered life. And when they get free, they don't know how to react.
Ken McMullen:
So for those listening that are still confused and we talk about we don't like religion and yet you're on a religious program right now. We don't like what is in Christianity, religion and. That would be confusing to some people. Even though we skimmed over it. What is the difference between the religion of Christianity and a biblical Christian?
Eli Yoder:
I love that question. That is one thing. I get attacked from the non Amish people on my channel quite a bit that are maybe denominational or whatever. They don't like my tone, but there's a reason why I preach the way I do. I came from a controlling religion, if you want to call it a cult, I do all the time. But after that and I came when I came to the knowledge of the truth, I will always separate the word religion from Christianity, because true Christians that are born again have the Holy Spirit of God. They will follow Christ and His teachings. Religious people follow organized religion. There are some people that went into the Book of James and said, you know, Christianity is a religion. It doesn't matter how they try to interpret it, I will always stop them and tell them religion always wants power and control. Christianity is humility, love, acceptance, Christianity. Don't reject Christianity, don't demand. Hey, you have to do this and this. You got to meet our requirements. No. Jesus walked right up to the woman at the well, Jesus walked up to sinners who who came up against Jesus and rejected him.
Eli Yoder:
The religious people, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the scribes. They came against him. The sinners that were not part of the Pharisees and religion. They wasn't coming up against him. He was coming in, finding them. So I like to explain it that way, just to show people, you know, there is a there's a lot of good religions out there that if they want to use the Christian or the the religion label, you can. I refuse to do that because religion is what hung Jesus on the cross and killed him because Jesus and his apostles did not meet the requirements of religion. So therefore they wanted him out of the way. They even got on to Jesus and says, Why does your apostles not wash their hands ceremonially the way we do? Why don't they wash their pitchers and cups? Jesus just stopped him in Mark seven and he says, You hypocrites. You have a fine way of setting aside God's commandments in order to fulfill your own human traditions. That's why I separate Christianity and religion.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. You know what he was. An outlaw. That's what it is. Jesus, in the time he was living, which wasn't just some people are religious like the everyone was religious but in the Judeo culture and he did not abide by their rules. Because they were manmade rules, which made him an outsider, a transgressor, an outlaw. So becoming outlaws are people who decide to follow him and step outside of not only society, but religion and actually follow him. Yes. And to those who are still there tagging along on this conversation, if you're following it, is Jesus never once said you need to be a Christian. It didn't really exist yet, of course, but he did say or that you need to be a Jew and follow Judaism and follow their laws. He did say you have to be born again. Yes. And so if people can understand how he explained it was in the simplest terms, is man needs to be born twice. You're born of the flesh, which means you are a baby. You became a person in this world and you have to be reborn in the spirit to have a relationship with God. And if you haven't. Then you're not a Christian. Even if you have been in church your whole life and have obeyed a bunch of rules, that has nothing to do with it. You could have never stepped in a church. You could be a total lawbreaker. And you need to receive Christ and be born again. That is a Christian. And that's where my heart sinks because, you know, 80 something percent, it's always really high, 85, 86% of Americans say they're Christian. And then you get down and there'll be like 11% say they're born again. It doesn't even make sense.
Eli Yoder:
Because true born again Christians, that's what represents a Christian. That's what really defines a Christian.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. Born Again isn't a weird segment of charismatic Pentecostals that, you know, remember, like Jimmy Carter, the born again Christian president, is opposed to other Christian presidents or whatever. No, you're either Christian or you're not. It's just saying Christian, Christian. But if you don't know if you like Christian and if you had to check a box on something, what are you Most people don't know what Protestant means. They're like, Oh, okay, I'm not Jewish. I'm Christian because I live in America or whatever. Um, but you don't know what it means to have been born of the spirit. Then you got to do what Scripture says. No one's judging you. You got to do a scripture says it goes. Go and make your calling and election. Sure. Make sure you're saved.
Eli Yoder:
Yes.
Eli Yoder:
And you can know.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah. You'll never go to church enough times. You'll never wear the right collar. Enough times. You can live your whole life and not ride a bike bicycle. It has nothing to do with anything.
Ken McMullen:
So the Amish.
Ken McMullen:
And things like that, they're just the extreme. But we're but millions or billions in the world are doing the same thing on a they're deceived.
Eli Yoder:
Yes.
Eli Yoder:
And yep, see it all the time. I was amazed when I left the Amish and realized there's so much legalism out here too. It's not just the Amish. No, they're all at different levels. But I was. I was amazed. I mean, you know, you know, we should start a movement of trying to do away with all names, all name tags, all religious names. Let's just all follow Jesus. How hard can it really be?
Eli Yoder:
That's right. You know.
Ken McMullen:
We're just preaching to the choir talking, but other people might it might be new to them. But, you know, scripture says that if you put in context, if you think of the most like holy people, you can think of, you know, like Mother Theresa always comes to mind. Well, actually, she was kind of like a jerk. But, you know, but she gave her life helping people in Calcutta or whatever. So you're really, really helping people. You give your life for service and you do. You're the kindest, most giving person. You've done all the rules, the best ever, the most holy person you could think of. And then scripture says, You take all of that. And in God's eyes, when it comes to salvation, it's like filthy rags. That need to be not only thrown away, but burned and discarded. That's how offensive it is in God's sight that anything we could ever do would earn any credit for salvation or heaven because it takes away. For what Christ did?
Eli Yoder:
Yes.
Eli Yoder:
Yeah. Even in Romans four four, you can read. And that really opened my eyes after I got saved. And think in the back of the Amish and all the rules it talks about, the good works will stack up against you as debt against you. Think about that.
Ken McMullen:
So then if.
Ken McMullen:
People wonder and they should, then then why do good works? Well, don't do it. Because you think you're earning something. That's the point. What scripture makes clear is that what happens when you become born again. Is that the spear begins to move on you and the spirit wants to help other people.
Eli Yoder:
Yes.
Ken McMullen:
Fruits of the Spirit. Nothing to do with gaining salvation, but everything to do with spreading his kingdom.
Eli Yoder:
Yes. Yeah. I love to use the phrase a dog barks because he's a dog. He doesn't bark To become a dog at Christian that is born again, will do good works and love thy neighbor as thyself because he is saved. He doesn't do them to become saved. Yeah.
Ken McMullen:
Yeah.
Ken McMullen:
Boy, we're good. We really appreciate yourself happy. All right. I appreciate your time. I'm not going to take more, but where can people you're all over the Internet. I mean, where can people find you? Where would you like people to go? What do you have like a main hangout or is it TikTok? Is it YouTube?
Eli Yoder:
I usually give it all out under my name, Eli Yoder. I usually use my name. I'm on Facebook, I'm on YouTube under Eli Yoder, I'm on TikTok. I got two channels. You know, TikTok is Yoder Toter four zero on my main account. The other account that has 189,000 followers. Now, that one's Eli, the Amish preacher.
Ken McMullen:
Nice. You should have t shirts.
Ken McMullen:
Yoder Toter.
Speaker4:
Like that. I got.
Eli Yoder:
One.
Ken McMullen:
Oh, you do?
Ken McMullen:
Hey, you know what? I didn't get them in the mail. I thought I'd get it today, but I just got be coming out. Lost trucker hats. I always wear a trucker hats. So if you. If you send me someplace to send it, I'll give you be coming out less trucker hats so you can wear it on the road.
Eli Yoder:
Awesome. Absolutely love to wear that.
Ken McMullen:
And if you said, you know, this stuff does make it Amish people, how do they reach out to you? Do you have a certain way? Is it just through social media? Do you have some kind of help center line or what goes on there?
Eli Yoder:
Yeah, I, I always give out my email. If they want to email, use the driver's phone. They'll know English friends and drivers. But Eli dot ministry .06 at gmail.com. They can email me there. A lot of them have done it and a lot of them also have used their drivers or friends to reach out for me and email me or message me on TikTok. I can receive messages on there, even comment on videos. There's a ton of them that just come in on some of my videos. And I saw it. So I messaged back and I got to follow them back to receive the message. But I've done that. There's so many different ways they can communicate, but I'm careful on giving my number and personal information out because the ones that are doing it for the wrong reasons, I don't want them to get my number, but I always start with email. That's Eli Dot Ministry .06 at gmail.com. If that that gets the conversation started and I can read those emails and see if they're legit. If it's somebody that really is serious about leaving, then we will make that happen.
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