A Life Lifting Rojo w/ Cindy Morgan: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

A Life Lifting Rojo w/ Cindy Morgan: this mp4 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Ken:
I clicked on your The Day Elvis Died song. And I love it. It's not what I expected. Every time I think of a Elvis song, I think, Well, someone's going to do something, I don't know, kind of cheeky or whatever. And but it was your your head, your signature sound, kind of like the feeling and the the thoughtfulness behind it.

Cindy:
Thank you. You know, for me that, um, the nostalgia of that. Time and that era and just there's a there's a real I think there's such an ache to the story of Elvis. And even though he became kind of a parody of himself toward the end of his life. But as we've seen with the Elvis movie, there was so much behind what was really going on in his life. And so I think I. I just. You know that fascination. Why do some people just connect? And there's something so intriguing about that. But yeah, that just represents a part of history that's very nostalgic and has a lot of longing. Yeah.

Ken:
A rebel with a gospel soul.

Cindy:
Rebel heart and gospel soul. Yep, that's right. Tears fell from the gates of Graceland.

Ken:
The year of Jubilee. So I open the book. And the first thing you see is dedicated to Samuel Morgan. November 7th, 1966, October 31st, 1971. Those are those years are too close together.

Cindy:
Yeah.

Ken:
Samuel Morgan. And why is he up front in your book?

Cindy:
Yeah. So. So here is you can see it. This is a this is that photograph. Okay. Samuel is my brother. And so and then he is holding he's holding his little pet rooster Rojo. And, um, so Samuel was a week away from his fifth birthday when he died, and I was about three and a half. Years old and mean obviously those because we were both young and. And around the same age. We've played together all the time. You know, we were playmates. But I don't have any memories of us playing together, even though there are all these photographs and there's playing. But my first memory. Of him. And the only memory that I really have is. What is now the prologue of the novel, which is me holding up rojo rojo to the window of his hospital room so he could see him one last time before he died. And so that's my first memory. And I think. And it's just a memory that would never let me go. You know, in my life as I grew up and. So I wrote down that memory and and realized that I felt like there was a lot to process in that. And in the story of his death and how it impacted my family. But I wanted to explore that in a fiction setting to where I could build a world, build a family that was not my family, but was in some ways inspired my by my family. But but in other ways, not at all. And and so that's that's why that picture is there.

Ken:
When you experience death at such a young age and somebody close to you, even if it was almost a pre memory years, those are still the developmental years. So that becomes. The person and the loss becomes a part of who you are. And so it's coming out in a fiction book. But has it been part of your life story, your writing, throughout the years? Because to me, I'm not a Cindy Morgan expert, but I always felt your music was actually a little similar in the feeling is to like the Amy Grant music where it's almost a little sad but full of hope. It's not. Well, mine is the baby, baby and stuff, but the the melodic melodies are very thoughtful and heartfelt. And a lot of times I find that comes from somebody who, well, one's willing to be vulnerable but maybe has something, whether it's in the back of their mind or who they are or whether they're talking about it or not, but something that they're dealing with or is. Well, that's real art, right? It comes out in what you do.

Cindy:
Yeah, I think I mean, I agree with you in that. I think those early memories and those early experiences and if there are traumatic experiences, I think, or trauma on top of trauma for a lot of people that I mean, that that is going to steer your life in a certain way or your the way you express things. And um. And I think that was certainly the story for me growing up under the umbrella of the death of my brother. And it impacted the way my parents moved in the world, the way they interacted with us. My dad became very, like protective and he just he just wanted to protect us because he was so afraid that something bad would happen again. And it is that waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think I definitely spent my whole life waiting for the other shoe to drop because I felt that my whole life, my family and. Um, and my parents were both song writers and both musicians. And my dad actually wrote two novels before he died in 1999. And so he's never that were never published and that I would love to publish when one old. But yeah, so I think for me the combination of already having that that being bent in that direction musically because my parents both were, um, and then the impact of the death of, of, of a child, a death of a sibling and really what you witness your parents go through. Because even though, I mean, my, my oldest brother, Mike, he remembers everything because he was a teenager and but don't but he was eight years older than Samuel. So he remembered it all. But I don't. And mom and so but I remember that but I think I just remember for my dad being in my mom definitely tried to bring in some faith healers to heal Samuel, which didn't work. And that left her feeling like she had failed in some way. And then how does that impact your faith? And so I really wanted to unpack all of those sayings that my family is really lived through a fiction setting.

Ken:
The Year of Jubilee. Fictional, but autobiographical. Biographical.

Cindy:
Semi-autobiographical. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Ken:
So in that setting, do you think that this would be has it been kind of therapeutic for you to actually sit and go through the memories and kind of recreate them in another world?

Cindy:
100%. And you know, Ken, I've worked on this book for so long, like I wrote the prologue 17 years ago. And that's changed. Almost mean polished it up a little bit, but it's almost not changed at all. But when I've really worked on the novel for ten years, 21 drafts of rewriting it and rewriting it and rewriting it and, you know, I wanted to create I wanted to have plot points. I wanted to I mean, it is a work of fiction that there are. Tons of things in the book that are not that never happened in my life, you know, or my family's life. But but it's inspired by some real characters. And there are even some names that I kept, as in honor of people who passed away and are in honor of people that I loved, you know, like Miss Adams, who is a teacher in the story. Um, is based on my seventh grade literature teacher. But I borrowed the name from a teacher that was a teacher from my girls that they loved. And so that's, you know, it's kind of fun to do that.

Cindy:
And then but back to your, your, your point about there being being therapeutic, I really think the reason it took me so long. To write it, and I don't think I had the tools that I needed. I did not have enough empathy in my heart for certain parts of the story. Certain people in the story. I didn't have enough empathy to write those characters in the way that they needed to be written so that they would have complexity. Now, you know, because, you know, there's nothing worse than, you know, a paper thin character that just feels like a stereotype and it feels like they're not they don't they don't come alive. So I think it took me a long time to learn to do that and to feel it, too. You know, I had to I think, you know, I had to love I had to have some love for my least favorite characters. I had I had to love the ones that were easy to hate. So there were some speck of humanity in them.

Ken:
What brought you to a place that you felt like you had enough empathy?

Cindy:
I think a lot of losses. You know, I think I went from losing my dad. You know, he was my hero. I mean, my dad was. My dad was just he was wonderful. And John Mockingbird was definitely based on my dad. There's no question my dad was a Volkswagen mechanic. So was John Mockingbird. But losing my dad suddenly without any warning. Um. And. Really learning. Learning how to really have empathy for. More empathy from my lawn. And I'd always had a tumultuous relationship with she and I and had a relationship that wasn't always easy. And my dad was easy. So when when we lost dad, I was like, I had to learn to see my mom with new eyes. And I had to have empathy for her that I maybe would never have gained if my dad had not passed away. And now I have a great relationship with my mom and I saw her as a person. Yeah, that aside from being my mother, I saw her as a person. And I think. That was an important part of the journey for me. I got divorced. That was tough. And and I think. Anybody who's gone through a difficult divorce. And what divorce isn't typical. So they're all difficult. And even if you're if even if you're decent to each other, it's still something, you know, it's a death. And I think, you know, the more difficult things you walk through in life, it just gives you more compassion for people that you and more understanding. You go, Oh, oh, wow, my eyes are open now I get it. And I think I didn't have enough life experience before.

Ken:
Life experience adds a lot if you learn from them. Some of the most trite things are so true. You know, you get bitter or better. Hurt people. Hurt people, you know? And once you've been hurt, you realize maybe they weren't so grumpy. Maybe they just had a lot. Going on that I hadn't yet. No perspective.

Cindy:
That's right. Yeah, that's right.

Ken:
By the older wise, right?

Cindy:
We're not old. What? What is that? What is that saying? As to too soon old, too late. What is that saying? You know. Oh, I'll have to work it out. Too soon. Old too soon. Old. Too late. Wise or something like that. Yeah.

Ken:
I recently. Read. How could I ask for more just to get a feel of you and. Don't know. I felt a camaraderie a little bit like I would. That sounds a little morbid, but it's not. I would do stuff like that. You talked about spending an hour for a devotion reading the obituaries. But explain why you would do that. I totally get it.

Cindy:
I mean, I think that I just. There's something about when someone. Is has gone and you see what's left behind. What kind of trail they've left behind. It's just it's sobering. I think I did it because I've always been so afraid of death. And so there was something about reading an obituary and facing it. You know, they say the only way to kind of overcome fear is to face it. And so you make peace with death. You make peace with the fact that you are going to die. And I think reading the obituaries and seeing these people who live these like small lives and what what, what and that people who are mourning these people don't know this person. I don't know why. But you get the truth about someone. You can kind of see the a person, the nutshell of a person's life, an obituary. And it's just it's kind of sad, you know? Well, especially like in the in that book I was talking one of the obituaries was about Hollis. Who was the young cross-dresser that lived in the small town that I grew up in, small southern town and Kentucky.

Cindy:
And. And when I read his obituary, I thought, oh, that's not enough. That is not enough. There is so much more to his story. And because he my dad used to, he would be pushing his little bike along the side of the road and this road that had no shoulder and this, you know, like super dangerous little secondary highway. And my dad would pull over and say, oh, miss, you're going to get killed. Put your bike in the back of the car. He would get and he'd be having a dress on over his jeans make up. And and I would sit there in the truck bed looking at Hollis and his like, eyeshadow and his eyeliner. And I thought, I love that my dad picked this guy up, you know, and he was a sweetheart. And we and everybody in town knew it and knew his story, knew he struggled. And and so when I found out that he had died and I found that obituary, I thought, oh, that is so not you know, that's not enough. It was a lot more than.

Ken:
Well, other people try to sum up who you are in a nice way in a nutshell. But, you know, if you have the chance to write your own, what what would that say? I don't want to. I don't want to freak you out. I guess we're getting a little off track here. It's okay.

Cindy:
It's all right.

Ken:
But yeah. So think about the time you started your career and you look back at about that time, your first album and your ambitions and your goals in life. It's career, it's ministry, It's all these things. And not that we're sitting at the end of our lives, but having lived careers. If you could write down what was my life worth? Why was I here? Or I think maybe when people feel like they had a calling or a mission to do in life and then you're looking in retrospect and you're there and you're like. Did I do it or wasn't that mission? Because sometimes you look back and it wasn't what you thought it was. You did have a mission, but not what you thought it was when you were 20. Oh.

Cindy:
Oh, yeah, 100%. Well, I love that question. That's an amazing question of. You know, I think about my dad. He lived a very small life. He lived the small life. And he kind of gave up a shot at being a recording artist. And and it could have been. And but he gave it up to be a stable parent. And. I think, first of all, my girls, my girls, they love Jesus. Okay. Yes. That was a big, big thing for me. And that if my kids love God, you know, I just want them to to have a relationship with Jesus and to know him. And they do. Do you.

Cindy:
This. Man. You know, I was watching. Have you watched The Chosen? I love it. I think it's incredible. I think the writing is incredible. And my daughter, Olivia, who is a screenwriter, actually worked at the studio that does all the post-production for The Chosen. And um, and so anyway, it's just, it's such good, it's such good writing and just a beautiful thing. But I was watching. In season three, when Jesus is, I think, like an 8 or 9 and he's talking to Joseph, his earthly father. And because he's passing something on to him and he said, you know, I know I'm not your real father, but. I just want you to know that there's been no writing on and, like, stewarding your life these last few years. Because he died young, right? Like, as men did in those days. And I just was sitting there crying because I thought, oh, my goodness, just. Just the beauty of. Do. Like there was something about that moment with him saying that to Jesus and how when we love just loving people. Well. Um, in whatever capacity you're called to do that, that that is the work of the kingdom, that is the work of the kingdom, of how we love people. And and sometimes it's hard to love people. And so I think I'd hope that I'm learning to love people. And because I think that's the greatest way we can serve the kingdom is to love people. And wherever they are. And yeah, I think that's what I hope.

Ken:
What do you hope people get? Well, when they're through reading the Year of Jubilee.

Cindy:
Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, the work that I feel that I feel called as a writer, I feel that God put that calling on on my life. And so I take it very seriously. And, and I think, um, I hope this is connected to what I just said, but I really, I feel like. Part of loving people is having compassion for people who don't look like you. Don't believe what you believe. Don't that are you love. You're becoming outlaws. It's like, you know, like people who are like, coming at life from a different perspective than you are. Um, I hope that the when people read this novel, they can see people around them with eyes. That that they extend compassion and that and they extend empathy for other people. And last judgment and and that they can, I don't know, just make room for more people in their heart than what's in their heart right now. And I think. Like because this book is about a death. Um, I think it's important for us to. To reconcile things, to make things right with with people who, you know, forgiveness doesn't have to be a two way street. Right. Corrie ten Boom, said that forgiveness is opening a cell door and realizing you were the person behind the bars. You're the person who's freed by forgiveness.

Ken:
So for those who aren't familiar Old Testament references, where Year of Jubilee comes from, is that correct?

Cindy:
That's right.

Ken:
So what does that mean? Scripturally. And then that applied to to your book.

Cindy:
Yeah. So my mom is a messianic Jew, and so she's attended a messianic congregation for years. And so she's always talked about the year Jubilee And the town that the story occurs in is called Jubilee. It's Jubilee, Kentucky, and it's a small southern town at the base of the hills of eastern Kentucky coal mining town. And and and that's definitely inspired by the small coal mining towns that my parents used to drive me through when we would visit my grandparents in Kentucky, which is where my parents are both from. So the year of Jubilee on the Hebrew calendar in the Jewish calendar is the year when slaves are freed and debts are forgiven. And it's kind of like a clean slate. Yea. And as I thought about the book and about just this, because forgiveness is and forgiveness is a huge part of the theme of the book and also about of personal freedom and grace. Mockingbird, who's 13, about to be 14, she is living through a family trauma and she's trying to process that alongside of it being 1963, which is the height of the civil rights movement and watching the possibility of integration happening in her small town, which is a which. Is a big deal and I'm so and she has has relationships with people in the town and that that of course are that the the black the black community in jubilee who of course is very much fighting for integration. And you see that tension and you see how through Grace Mockingbird's eyes, she kind of comes awake, um, to, you know, what this could mean for these people who she's built this relationship with. And there's an important scene toward the end of the book about like the year Jubilee. You know, what does that mean for the African-Americans in Jubilee in 1963? That meant equal rights for grace. It meant something different for me, the reader. It means something different for the town. It meant something different. And so. It seemed like that that was a theme that kind of penetrated a lot of different layers.

Ken:
I kind of wish we all went to Messianic Jewish. There's think of the depth of understanding your average Christian would have if we had, you know, that kind of lacking today. But that would be wonderful.

Cindy:
Yeah. And also just just a little extra. So recorded books, who's doing the audio book has selected it for an enhanced audio book. So I have written a soundtrack, The Sounds of Jubilee, but some of my musical heroes and we've written songs from the perspective of different characters in the book. So there's a lot of different singers, a lot of different voices on the record. Um, and so we took pieces of music from the soundtrack, and that's all within the dialogue here. And they're just kind of scattered throughout the book. And then there's two bonus songs at the end of the Audible book, as well as a short interview with Sandra McCracken, who does a podcast called The Slow Work. So anyway, so the enhanced audio audiobook will will hopefully be, you know, a little something extra and then the soundtrack as well.

Ken:
Are you able to reveal some names?

Cindy:
Yes. Yeah. So Tom Douglas, if you know who that is, he's like, you know, probably our finest songwriter here in Nashville. Um, he, he and I wrote a song together for it and he appears as a guest vocalist on it. And, um, and he wrote, he and I wrote a song that's just all. Boy, it's, it's, it it made me cry. So, but anyway, Tommy Sims and I wrote the Spiritual for it, and he is the voice of Hezekiah Pat Reverend Hezekiah Wayne Kirkpatrick is one of my mentors and heroes. He and I wrote a song together and do a duet and. And Jonathan Kingham, who's a really great Americana artist. He's been touring with Toad, the Wet Sprocket for years, and then really good friend of mine and he has a guest appearance on there and a few and a few others. Phil Madeira as well. Wow. He's a dear friend, So yeah, some of my dearest friends and musical heroes.

Ken:
One time I got to watch Tommy Sims work. We mentioned Derek Champion was here. He's recording one of his albums once and Tommy Sims was mixing it. That's a cool dude.

Cindy:
He is the coolest dude in the world. I'm so excited. You know what? I'll send you I'll send you a link, an early link to to this song that we did together. Oh, my goodness. It's just. It makes me so happy. Makes me so happy.

Ken:
Once again, thank you. I'm sure the book is going to do phenomenally. You're an amazing writer. And and it's got heart. You know, I'm kind of a nonfiction for the most part, reader. Uh. You know, a nerdy documentary kind of watcher on television.

Cindy:
Me, too.

Ken:
But but I go toward stories that, you know, have meaning behind them and are well done, whether it's on film or in fiction. So. Great book. Thank you. Great.

Cindy:
Thank you. Thank you. You too. Thank you so much, Ken.

Cindy:

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